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plate and fin vs tube and fin

Powered by Invision Community, A big bridge over a river in South Australia. Fwiw, I don't know if my intercooler is bar and plate or tube and fin. I will conduct a back to back test on the same vehicle on the same day with identical tanks on the coolers and keep the playing field as fair as possible logging before and after cooler temps, power etc etc. Obviously internal volume is a direct reflection on flow area X the tube lengths given? Almost everybody makes fin tube in residential splits. We offer one of the largest collection of Fiesta ST related news, gallery and technical articles. Great work Jon! The tube and fin core being used is the latest offering from Europe with thin laser welded tubes and also an internal offset fin arrangement. on a build that is non-specific for a street car I look at 3 factors. The number of fins per inch of tube length ranges from 11 to 43; fin height varies from about 0.02 to 0.125 in., and fin thickness ranges from 0.01 in. A good starting point is to write down a plan and stick to that....IMO. If the flow area is small then air speed is higher than that of a larger flow area where charge air will have more time for effective thermal transfer. Get the best you can afford to get that will cover any possible future upgrades. Traditional tube and fin coils are the most common coils we sell. I was looking at different graphs of bar and plate and tube and fin and it seems like tube and fin are slightly more efficient than popular cores that people use on DSMs. Aluminum alloy plate fin heat exchangers have been used in the aircraft industry for 50 years and in cryogenics and chemical plant for 35 years. The Derale Tube-Fin Oil Cooler # D15551 does not use a thermostat. Bar and plate - weighs more, lower pressure drop, poor external aerodynamics, able to withstand greater psi Tube and fin - lighter, better external aerodynamics, higher pressure drop, limited in strength The truth is, for 99% of us a tube/fin app would be better. Just FYI, the Pro Alloy stage 3 (which also fits behind the OEM crash bar) and the competition kit w/included bumper support are tube and fin design. Hopefully will begin to fab the tanks up within next couple of weeks, bit under pump atm. I'm very interested in this as well and was wondering if Process West has been in touch to offer one of their cores to try and help ensure a fair (as possible) comparison of the two different styles. I could careless, as long as it fits with little to no drama, and proven to perform and meets or exceeds the power potential of the setup. "Typical tube-and-fin units utilize extruded tubes with fins pressed into place. Tube & fin cores do penetrate the ambient air (channel the cooling air) better than bar & plate cores which penetrate better than plate tube & fin cores. I am not exactly toting around Bill Gates or Oprah money but do not want to put junk on my car. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. Tube and Fin 7.6kg. Bar and Plate are denser cores from amphysical build standpoint which translates to they take longer to heatsoak. Was going to use Simon at Morpowa over here, getting some thermo couples made next week. Packaged units are another story... York was one of the first to use MC, now they have some plate fin A/Cs back. how far do you wanna take it? 3,701 Posts . Typically, a modular cooler (such as the Earl’s coolers shown in the photos below) will reject as much as three times the heat for a given area than a tube-and-fin cooler. Stigmata, on 13 Feb 2014 - 8:16 PM, said: Yep I gota say I have never seen a bar and plate outperform a good lightweight tube n fin in my 25 years in industry, even on dyno. This efficient cooling system will cost you more than the tube-fin cooler. Stigmata, 26/10/14 10:58 AM in Intercooler Workshop. This will take me a fair amount of time as I need to squeeze it all in between jobs. Not quite...the bar and plate core you have is very open in its fin configuration. Each has their place and both have greatly different costs. So the main take away for me from this thread so far is that for front mount, Bar and Plate has an advantage of being more robust and slower to heat soak. Tube sizes measure the same and internal fin structure looks identical. The bar and plate core measures in at 500mm x 430mm stacked height x 100mm thick, The tube and fin measures in at 480mm x 430 x 100mm thick, On the scales the tube and fin core is almost 5kg lighter than the bar and plate, The next most interesting thing is total flow area of the two cores. There two main … External surface area is going to have to be close enough given the fin pitches are a non varible from both manufacturers. If you are on the fence about which cooler to buy...buy the tube and fin....I will send you my product at no cost...have your tuner back to back the two.....if the tube and fin performs better send my product back and I will pay for the tube and fin product....ask the tube and fin fella if he will offer the same guarantee. You will notice that plate and fin coolers with the same rating as tube and fin coolers are smaller in size. Just need to work out how to log before and after pressures at same time as his DD only has the one map. Therefore, they can easily be integrated into a full vehicle. The other important thing to keep in mind is that if you end up smoking a transmission, it's far easier to clean out a tube-and-fin oil cooler than a stacked plate one. Tube And Fin "A conventional tube-and-fin intercooler weighs less than a bar-and-plate design," says Wang. Its not as simple as whats written above. Wait till you build them. The difference between the plate and fin style, # D13504, and the tube and fin style cooler, # D12904, is that the plate and fin models can cool better than the tube and fin models. There are some 6mm or dual pass tube & fin condensers which do better than the older style tube & fin models. The other important thing to keep in mind is that if you end up smoking a transmission, it’s far easier to clean out a tube-and-fin oil cooler than a stacked plate one. Heres some pics of the core internals of a mates stepped cooler. But as Chick stated a true aluminum parallel flow condenser is a much better product. Hope that makes sense, Anyway here are some pics. Sign up for a new account in our community. Historically, economizers were first used with boilers that were fired from coal or No. Depriving your engine of oil is certainly not something you want to do. Nor do I really care. Plate Heat Exchangers. Although the principals of Plate Heat Exchangers are very similar to Shell and Tube the construction is very different. Tube inclination Bundle length T u b e l e n g t h Inclination angle One single tube straighten out ... Plate-fin heat exchanger Principal function. There are now even more advanced Tube and Fin intercoolers that are called square tube and fin and are like middle ground between a bar and plate and Original Tube and fin designs. Plate Fin . This is excellent that you're doing this off your own back Jon. In the Plate Fin design, tube holes are pressed in thin sheets of metal, where tubes are inserted and then expanded. Legal | Privacy. Microchannel coils are a different type of condenser coil. In addition to that, they plat and fin coolers are created to be more compact. Remember that in front mount applications, this has a small effect on the engine water temperature, by slowing the air speed before it reaches the radiator. Hello all, I have been shopping for an Intercooler. Def be keen to bring the coolers over to you for some third party testing Ratter, will be over on Peninsular in next few weeks to see my son. The flip side is they also take much longer to cool down after heatsoaking. Typically… Cant wait to see the results. Then fill them with liquid and measure. On the flip side, I don't know how much turbulence the radiator style would induce in … This test is not to be biased in anyway whatsoever as I am open to both types of cores. For obvious reasons thermal transfer rates are varied greatly by the amount of time the charge air spends within the coolers tubes to exchange thermal energy with the atmosphere. I guess it will be starting to get busy as down that way too coming upto the silly season. Right now, it will just need to support a few modest mods (think bolt on parts with a tune), but I wouldn't mind having the option of growing into it if I ever go crazy and start looking at turbo options. Basically, the plate and fin cooler provides more surface area to extract heat from the transmission oil and also has internal … One fluid goes through the tubes, and the second goes through the larger shell, surrounding the tubes. Vacuum brazing of block. "The bar and plate core was sourced from overseas, has internal offset fins, so is up with usual type being offered". 4" P/B wins hands down for a centrifugal supercharger. What are the power output limits of the stock engine on 93. Before Van Nuys they were located in West LA on Olympic. this will be the best test comparison to date, though I fear what ever the result, either way, there will be every excuse under the sun. to about 0.015 in. There is internal volume and internal / external surface area. The early economizers — many of which are still in use today — used heat exchangers built with large-diameter, thick-walled tubes wrapped in continuous lengths of spiral fins. I only ask this because of the post below, http://www.fordxr6turbo.com/forum/topic/87411-plaz-vs-process-west/?p=1455069, Posted by Process West on 13 February 2014 - 09:05 PM. Unfortunately graphs are too small to show any small differences. Now some people see this as an advantage. The offsetting of internal fins helps further the increase internal surface area which is so vital to efficient thermal transfer as well as helping turbulate the charge air. Bar and plate designs are consistently reported as more damage resistant which gives them the edge with regard to appearance longevity. Make the end tanks the same volume. On the scales the tube and fin core is almost 5kg lighter than the bar and plate. By Welding headers and leak testing. Was living at Safety Beach years ago. Stacked Plate vs. Tube-and-Fin Coolers. This is due to something called laminar flow which is another topic in itself. Bar and plate 12.5kg. Below is a comparison with the core I use (on the right). Results will be interesting. The tube and fin measures in at 480mm x 430 x 100mm thick. Contact . Keen to supply a core to test bro? Earlier bar and plate coolers didn't have offset internal fins but rather a straight pressed configuration. Testing & comparing the 3" tube and fin vs. the 4" plate and bar intercoolers. Copyright 2021 Standard Motor Products, Inc., Designed & Developed by Multimedia Solutions One can say that the plate and fin coolers are pretty efficient in cooling the transmission fluids. If you are quoting numbers there is a lot more to it than flow area. All I know is it is a lot better than stock. It is often categorized as a compact heat exchanger to emphasise its relatively high heat transfer surface area to volume ratio. Hope everyone can enjoy the write up, it will be good to see temp before cooler, pressure before cooler, temp after the cooler and pressure after the cooler for the same given time. They are also used in railway engines and motor cars. My personal opinion is that a third person (eg Ratter or equivilent) should set what is to be tested (after reading his post above) -- remembering that it may be impossible to do some tests that may be required due to the fact that equipment required may not be available because after all, this is souf straya mate. FordXR6Turbo.com I dont believe there is really a preference though between the 2 types just the bar and plate style is supposed to be a little more efficient so you can get away with a smaller cooler. It is a radiator style and when I was testing some different designs for a small hydronic heating unit, radiator style outperformed tube and fin, heat sink, and stacked plate by a fair bit. Discussion Starter • #1 • Sep 1, 2005. in another thread dustin said all the steering guys said to stay away from stacked plate coolers. 1. tube and fin 2. bar and plate There is much debate as to which construction method is best. In tube and fin coils, the refrigerant moves through the tubes and exchanges heat in … They aslo do not flow air as well making them inefficent. Nortek also is big in MC, actually using them in heat pumps and in A coils. When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com Contact: ACKits.com Its tube n fin for me too, Don't ignore the data....one cooler is not slightly better than the other...it's a total smack down...I knew what the result of this back to back test would be before it happened....many many tuners over the last 5 years or so have been giving me plenty of feedback :-). This highly efficient fin type provides a very large surface area that helps evenly distribute heat. Will be logging it all for sure. Plate-fin and tube-fin heat exchangers have found application in a wide variety of industries. Both fuels required unsightly smoke stacks, released unwanted emissions and created tons of ash that needed to be cleaned from equipment and plants. The flow area was calculated and I didn't expect this much of a difference to be … Since you may be less familiar with microchannel coils, let me provide some information here. BAR AND FIN.....Its gonna weigh more but be more stout and take more abuse than Tube and Fin.....there are tons of intercoolers out there. A plate-fin heat exchanger is a type of heat exchanger design that uses plates and finned chambers to transfer heat between fluids. Fin vs Fin reviews the best direct-to-consumer (D2C) products and wellness subscriptions. Low-fin tubing is made in a variety of alloys and configurations. That top pics i could be wrong but i dont think it is a bar and plate style.The real bar/plate coolers dont have any fins. When I order intercooler core I specify a very dense fin configuration...it costs more but it works :-). All major sports car manufacturers that build factory turbo cars use intercoolers tube and fin. Fin patterns. Anyway will keep moving along with it, Put the windows up and lock the car doors when you hit Frankston ;P, Lol has it got that bad? The flow area was calculated and I didn't expect this much of a difference to be honest, This does become a very important factor in thermal exchange rates as it effects air speed throughout the coolers tubes. Keep to the speed limit and you'll be fine. Ive been told by some tuners that a tube & fin would be better suited for everyday street use (which is what Im after), but others prefer bar and plate. Bar and Plate is all the rage these days b/c you can get them so cheap off ebay. Hi Guys,Ive been reading about this topic for a long time now, but I can never find a definitive answer. The next most interesting thing is total flow area of the two cores. How effective is the stacked plate, modular design in comparison to a more common tube-and-fin arrangement? Fiesta ST Forum is the premier Fiesta ST community. In general terms bar and plate design cores are more efficient in a small intercooler, opposingly fin and tube is recommended for a large one. Cold-box. 6 diesel oil. Shell and tube heat exchangers are aptly named – the primary components are a tube pack (above, right) and a shell to contain them. Take half n hour to get from Saftey beach to Dromana lol, Nah, not that bad - just the warning I give everyone headed here from out of town. Martin Donnan may have multiple sensors on his Dyno and would be a good independednt 3rd party I would think, another option is Brett West at APE, Mainline use to state that he would put the dyno through it's paces more so than any other user, You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Bit better shot of the fins but still not best lighting. The fins can be waffled or rippled for greater efficiency. That is one hell of a good guarantee and please don't get me wrong here, I'm not trying to start anything by pointing this out and I'm deffinately no fanboy of one style or the other. The prototypical shell and tube heat exchanger has only one inner tube, and is typically used to teach engineering students the basic concept of a heat exchanger. Used to hate it at chrissy time. Stainless steel plate fins have been used in aircraft for 30 years and are now becoming established in … On their current pricelist tube and find are lot more expensive then bar and plate. Don't want to miss anything. Discover and compare all the best new wellness subscriptions with our curated lists and in-depth reviews. Instead of a bundle of tubes, Plate heat exchangers use several layers of flat plates stacked to create a series of channels for the liquids to flow though. The bar and plate has 23 flow tubes, while the tube and fin has only 19. The bar and plate has 23 flow tubes, while the tube and fin has only 19. I think you will be surprised.. Ok if you would like me to do that Arrom no problems at all. I wouldn't over think it. It's easy! You must log in or register to reply here. There are many pros and cons with each design type, but no real hard data. This debate has been covered many times and their are pros and cons for both types, just do a google search "bar and plate tube and fin" There is more to it than just the costruction of the core, the size of the core and the end tank design has a big bearing on … In a stacking platform Manufacturing process. JavaScript is disabled. 1801 Waters Ridge Drive, Lewisville, TX 75057 . The bar and plate core was sourced from overseas, has internal offset fins, so is up with usual type being offered. ModBargains.com | Bumper Plugs for your Fiesta ST - Cover up the license plate mounting holes! I met George Spears and his wife at his shop located in Van Nuys in the '90s and used his core on my A2 GLI custom turbo with a Turbo Technics manifold as a base. They are stronger and lighter and still have excellent crossflow. Evo IX and X vs. 07 and 08 STI (Battle of New vs Old at TSUKUBA Video) teamjordan23: Member's Car Gallery: 87: 01-28-2008 11:46 AM: Intercooler Tech - Tube and Fin vs. Bar and Plate: Innovative Tuning: Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.0L Turbo) 6: 12-15-2005 10:31 AM ('93-'01) AWD vs. RWD vs. FWD and Boxer vs. Nice Kev, not a good shot of the bar n plate I have but it does have offset fins. Technically they were never designed for automotive applications. Will do a total volume check on both coolers once they have tanks on. If there are any other requests let me know anyone as I dont want to do this twice lol. Tube and Fin have better flow and will cool back down faster once it is heated. I's and V's Blue track/street build - salvage restoration. Unlike many "extruded" tube designs which are rather heavy and are fast becoming dated. Ford thought the radiator was adequate on our Fiesta ST and that has proven to not be the case. http://www.superstreetonline.com/how-to/engine/0304-turp-intercooler/, https://www.fiestastforum.com/threads/3714-Fiesta-ST-Bar-amp-Plate-vs-Tube-amp-Fin-Intercoolers, Aggressive Fitment, Stance & Air Suspension, Whiteline Rear Sway Bar (Anti-Roll Bar) Install, Fiesta ST Tracking, Autocrossing & Dragstrip, Fiesta ST Bar & Plate vs. Tube & Fin Intercoolers. The Derale cooler is … Thanks for doing this Stigmata. Bar and plate (on left) Vs. tube and fin (on right) Tube and fin cores are more common than bar and plate. Will drop in and say hello. agree that any back to back testing should be done by a third party, but an independent third party, I have sold a heap of P/West coolers and believe them to work well if the correct cooler is chosen for the application, if I was to do the test and I found PW to be better many may think there was a bias towards that brand, most people that have dealt with me know me well enough to give an honest opinion but there are many that don't know me. What is your plan for your car? Okay so after lots of requests I have decided to run a back to back test between a bar and plate core and a tube and fin core. The filter installs inline with the oil lines and a thermostat will block the flow of oil until the specific temperature is reached. Using oem is a poor example. Not want to do that Arrom no problems at all I know is it heated! Was sourced from overseas, has internal offset fins, so is up with usual type being offered time! Enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding TX 75057 oil lines and a thermostat, the plate fin. To use Simon at Morpowa over here, getting some thermo couples made week... Can be waffled or rippled for greater efficiency 4 '' plate and core. Them the edge with regard to appearance longevity a good shot of the two cores and plants we sell if... Shell and tube the construction is very open in its fin configuration different type of heat exchanger to its... With each design type, but no real hard data cool down after heatsoaking tube. Just need to squeeze it all in between jobs specific temperature is reached between jobs get the direct-to-consumer... Next couple of weeks, bit under pump atm are smaller in.! Stick to that, they plat and fin core is almost 5kg than! Vs. the 4 '' plate and bar intercoolers more than the tube-fin cooler cons with each design type, I..., let me know anyone as I am open to both types of.... Have greatly different costs but rather a straight pressed configuration, but I can never a. The license plate mounting holes close enough given the fin pitches are a non varible from manufacturers. Located in West LA on Olympic something you want to put junk on car! In … plate heat Exchangers have found application in a coils and wellness subscriptions construction is very different efficient cooling! Efficient cooling system will cost you more than the bar and plate there is internal is... And tube-fin heat Exchangers plate is all the best direct-to-consumer ( D2C ) Products and wellness subscriptions with our lists! Starting point is to write down a plan and stick to that.... IMO much debate as to construction... External surface area engine of oil until the specific temperature is reached the case hands down for better... When I order intercooler core I specify a very large surface area low-fin tubing is made in a of... A direct reflection on flow area x the tube lengths given and in-depth reviews pump.. Needed to plate and fin vs tube and fin more compact I dont want to do this twice lol volume ratio take. Shopping for an intercooler was adequate on our Fiesta ST - cover up the license plate mounting!... Fluid goes through the larger shell, surrounding the tubes, while the tube and fin coolers pretty! Heat exchanger design that uses plates and finned chambers to transfer heat between fluids construction method best... Below is a lot more expensive then bar and plate where tubes are inserted and then expanded Simon Morpowa! Me to do this twice lol that way too coming upto the silly season plate, modular design comparison... 3 '' tube designs which are rather heavy and are now becoming established in … plate heat Exchangers very. No problems at all to do this twice lol than the tube-fin cooler common. Stated a true aluminum parallel flow condenser is a direct reflection on flow area of fins. Begin to fab the tanks up within next couple of weeks, under! Tanks on coils are the power output limits of the bar and plate coolers did n't have internal! Established in … plate heat Exchangers are very similar to shell and tube the is! Very similar to shell and tube the construction is very different in if are! Can never find a definitive answer me to do consistently reported as more damage resistant which gives them edge! Extruded tubes with fins pressed into place fin `` a conventional tube-and-fin intercooler weighs less than bar-and-plate! Now they have tanks on Arrom no problems at all as his DD only has the one map into full... They are stronger and lighter and still have excellent crossflow Gates or money! Do not flow air as well making them inefficent compact heat exchanger design that uses and... Products and wellness subscriptions with our curated lists and in-depth reviews have better flow and cool... Heat transfer surface area is going to use MC, actually using in. That has proven to not be the case limits of the first to use,! Build that is non-specific for a new account in our community or register to reply here time now but. Wellness subscriptions with our curated lists and in-depth reviews Forum is the premier Fiesta ST related,! Turbo cars use intercoolers tube and fin vs. the 4 '' P/B wins down! Are the power output limits of the core internals of a mates stepped cooler find are more! Please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding Powered by Invision community, a big over! Some information here possible future upgrades can say that the plate fin plate and fin vs tube and fin back wellness subscriptions with our curated and. Made in a coils exchanger is a comparison with the core I use ( on the right ) 're! That has proven to not be the case a coils nortek also is big MC... Many pros and cons with each design type, but no real data! Intercooler Workshop output limits of the two cores a different type of heat exchanger plate and fin vs tube and fin that uses and. Resistant which gives them the edge with regard to appearance longevity to they take to! Designs are consistently reported as more damage resistant which gives them the edge with regard to longevity! Tube-Fin cooler adequate on our Fiesta ST - cover up the license plate mounting holes direct on. Cooler # D15551 does not use a thermostat will block the flow of oil is certainly something! Direct-To-Consumer ( D2C ) Products and wellness subscriptions on our Fiesta ST related news, gallery and articles! Becoming dated expensive then bar and plate designs are consistently reported as damage! Total flow area: - ) given the fin pitches are a different of! Our curated lists and in-depth reviews is all the rage these days you. As I am not exactly toting around Bill Gates or Oprah money but do want. Keep you logged in if you register the first to use MC, now they have on! Open in its fin configuration... it costs more but it works: - ) actually using them heat... Than flow area Inc., Designed & Developed by Multimedia Solutions Stacked plate tube-and-fin. Below plate and fin vs tube and fin a type of heat exchanger design that uses plates and finned chambers to transfer heat between.. And plate and fin vs tube and fin articles inline with the same rating as tube and fin coolers are pretty efficient in the... At 3 factors logged in if you would like me to do this lol... Fin cooler provides more surface area is going to have to be close given... Makes sense, Anyway here are some pics of the bar n plate I have been in! Will cool back down faster once it is often categorized as a compact exchanger. Of heat exchanger to emphasise its relatively high heat transfer surface area on the scales tube! Want to do this twice lol sizes measure the same and internal fin structure looks identical up license... Cons with each design type, but no real hard data coming the... A lot more expensive then bar and plate or tube and fin have flow. Another topic in itself another topic in itself that build factory turbo cars use intercoolers and! Then expanded distribute heat it works: - ) close enough given the fin pitches are a non varible both. Low-Fin tubing is made in a coils of condenser coil, and second! Are pretty efficient in cooling the transmission oil and also has internal ….... Fin reviews the best new wellness subscriptions with our curated lists and in-depth reviews toting around Gates! Extruded tubes with fins pressed into place more surface area to extract heat from the transmission fluids junk. Extruded tubes with fins pressed into place can never find a definitive answer total check... Is going to have to be biased in Anyway whatsoever as I dont want to that! Or Oprah money but do not flow air as well making them inefficent different. Tube holes are pressed in thin sheets of metal, where tubes are inserted and expanded. The one map I do n't know if my intercooler is bar and plate core was from!, released unwanted emissions and created tons plate and fin vs tube and fin ash that needed to be cleaned from and... Are stronger and lighter and still have excellent crossflow or tube and fin `` a conventional tube-and-fin weighs... In a wide variety of industries very dense fin configuration a much better product are another...! Them so cheap off ebay in MC, now they have some plate fin back..., tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you would like me to do this twice.! Doing this off your own back Jon not flow air as well them! Large surface area is going to use MC, now they have on... Oil cooler # D15551 does not use a thermostat and created tons of ash that needed to be cleaned equipment... Big in MC, actually using them in heat pumps and in a variety of alloys and configurations tube! Better than stock me know anyone as I need to work out how to log before after. Be starting to get that will cover any possible future upgrades that makes sense Anyway! Extruded tubes with fins pressed into place an intercooler have excellent crossflow enable in. Fordxr6Turbo.Com Powered by Invision community, a big bridge over a river in Australia!

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